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    Darwin Finches-Galapagos Islands

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    Darwin Finches-Galapagos Islands

    Postaj by Gost on ned 10 sij - 6:08

    After I read the Darwin's book; " Origin of Species ", I was stirred to see Darwin's finches.
    Last year in November I visited Galapagos Islands. I took many pictures including Darwin's finches. I like to share my adventure with the members of this forum with pictures of unique birds including the Darwin's finches that exist only on Galapagos Islands.
    I hope the subject will generate questions from the members interested in the topic.

    Tony

    Miljenko

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    Re: Darwin Finches-Galapagos Islands

    Postaj by Miljenko on ned 10 sij - 6:55

    Tony, let see some birds picture. Are they true finches or something else?

    PS: What an Avatar! Darwin?

    Gost
    Gost

    Re: Darwin Finches-Galapagos Islands

    Postaj by Gost on pon 11 sij - 2:04



    Mile, they didn't make it easy to download pictures on this forum. On the parrotlet forum I am on it is very easy. I managed to down load one of the Darwin finches. Basically they all look like the picture, they are all very drab in color mostly black.
    There are 14 Darwin finches on Galapagos Islands. They all speciated from the original finch that has been there for 3 million years. The difference in the 14 species is recognizable only by the shape of theirs beak.
    As soon as I learn how to download the pictures I will show you more pictures.
    I never heard any of them sing.

    Gost
    Gost

    Re: Darwin Finches-Galapagos Islands

    Postaj by Gost on pon 11 sij - 2:39













    this is " Blue footed boobie ". Only on Galapagos Islands you can see this bird.

    Gost
    Gost

    Re: Darwin Finches-Galapagos Islands

    Postaj by Gost on pon 11 sij - 6:37


    [IMGhttp://img706.imageshack.us/img706/8638/img4902.th.jpg[/IMG]




    Here is another Darwin finch. I looked up in the book, it looks like "Geospiza conirostris" The edge crushing beak.

    Miljenko

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    Re: Darwin Finches-Galapagos Islands

    Postaj by Miljenko on pon 11 sij - 22:50

    tony je napisao/la:



    this is " Blue footed boobie ". Only on Galapagos Islands you can see this bird.

    Initialy, I though this was one of the "blue finch"!? Embarassed

    So, Galapagos Islands were once part of the South America? Are finches actualy Siskins? Or separate spicies?

    Shape of the beak.....so, it is food (and climate) that cause speciation?

    Gost
    Gost

    Re: Darwin Finches-Galapagos Islands

    Postaj by Gost on uto 12 sij - 7:28

    Mile,
    Galapagos Islands were never attached to the mainland of South America.
    The Islands are 600 miles from the continent. The Islands were created by volcanic eruption
    5 million years ago.
    The Darwin finches have been isolated there on Galapagos Islands for 3 million years. How they got there we can speculate.
    The Darwin finches are not Siskins. The siskins are in the genus "Carduelis".
    The molecular work makes compelling case that Darwin's finches were originally "grassquits"
    Their closest relatives are in the genus "Tiaris".
    The shape of the beak is definitely an asset for survival.

    Gost
    Gost

    Re: Darwin Finches-Galapagos Islands

    Postaj by Gost on uto 12 sij - 8:03





    These are the 14 Darwin's finches showing their differences in beaks and their food preference.

    Gost
    Gost

    Re: Darwin Finches-Galapagos Islands

    Postaj by Gost on uto 12 sij - 8:16













    A good book if you are interested in the subject. You can buy it on Amazon.

    Miljenko

    Broj postova : 816
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    Location : Rancho Palos Verdes, Kalifornia, USA
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    Re: Darwin Finches-Galapagos Islands

    Postaj by Miljenko on uto 12 sij - 22:44

    Tony, thanks so much for taking time to respond. I know that you have knowledge on this topic, so correct me at any time.

    Logically is to assume that finches originated from S. A. Mainland, and how they come to island is no importance at this time. By adaptation they separated into different sub-specie.

    http://www.bio.miami.edu/~cmallery/150/unity/c1x17b-finches.jpg
    http://www.bio.miami.edu/~cmallery/150/unity/c7.1.23.finches.jpg

    Now, because there were no element “hybridization” with other sub-finches (birds with the same genus), evolution (known to the Mainland) in one way stopped there. Mutation at the specific gene-area helped development of the sub-specie (different beak).

    Regards the book, why should I buy it when I can borrow from you (indefinitely Very Happy ).

    Gost
    Gost

    Re: Darwin Finches-Galapagos Islands

    Postaj by Gost on čet 14 sij - 10:19

    Here is one more good book available

    "THE BEAK OF THE FINCH"
    BY JONATAN WEINER


    Zadnja promjena: tony; čet 4 vel - 20:58; ukupno mijenjano 3 put/a.

    Miljenko

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    Re: Darwin Finches-Galapagos Islands

    Postaj by Miljenko on pet 15 sij - 0:53

    Tony, are you Amazon employee, or got provision from them? Twisted Evil

    Gost
    Gost

    Re: Darwin Finches-Galapagos Islands

    Postaj by Gost on pet 15 sij - 6:33

    No Mile, I am nobodies employee. I have been on my own for the past 16 years enjoying my hobby of raising birds. Reading all kind of books written by some very dedicated people in search of truth and beauty of nature.


    Zadnja promjena: tony; čet 4 vel - 21:15; ukupno mijenjano 2 put/a.

    Miljenko

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    Re: Darwin Finches-Galapagos Islands

    Postaj by Miljenko on pet 15 sij - 6:44

    Tony, but I do not like "nice or smart".
    I like "joke", regardless that makes me "that other..."
    Only hope you are not angry on me, and do not take me seriously, most of the times.

    Regards the books (and other items) and Amazon, you are 100% right.

    Santa

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    Re: Darwin Finches-Galapagos Islands

    Postaj by Santa on sub 16 sij - 0:13

    I know many professors in States teaching evolutionary biology that disagree with Grants about evolution or Darwin finches... But this is another subject to discuss. Surely Darwin finches are very good group to study micro evolution.
    Best regards

    Gost
    Gost

    Re: Darwin Finches-Galapagos Islands

    Postaj by Gost on sub 16 sij - 7:47

    santa, I am glad you agree that Darwin finches are very good group to study micro evolution. I am fascinated with Grants work they did on those desolate Islands with no water and conveniences that you otherwise could have in the Ivory towers of the universities, too boot they had kids to raise under those conditions.
    I would like to have some names of those professors in the States that disagree with Grants.
    I would like to read some of their books. Can you give me some names? Do you know where the disagreements are?
    As a hobby, I have been keeping and raising birds for the past 70 years. I have no degrees in Ornithology. I do feel forums are good place to learn.

    Gost
    Gost

    Re: Darwin Finches-Galapagos Islands

    Postaj by Gost on sub 16 sij - 9:01

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l25MBq8T77w&feature=related


    Zadnja promjena: tony; pon 8 vel - 7:27; ukupno mijenjano 3 put/a.

    Miljenko

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    Re: Darwin Finches-Galapagos Islands

    Postaj by Miljenko on sub 16 sij - 10:37

    Tony, that we all better understand what is going on, can you give as a basic principles of the Grant hypothesis about evolution of the Darwin finches?

    Santa

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    Re: Darwin Finches-Galapagos Islands

    Postaj by Santa on sub 16 sij - 12:26

    http://www.4shared.com/file/198319832/e2f296dc/ANewPerspective.html

    One of the "new papers" on this subject

    Miljenko

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    Re: Darwin Finches-Galapagos Islands

    Postaj by Miljenko on ned 17 sij - 4:56

    Santa je napisao/la:http://www.4shared.com/file/198319832/e2f296dc/ANewPerspective.html

    One of the "new papers" on this subject

    Santa, ako ti nije problem, mozes li nam jednostanim jezikom (u kratko) opisat koje su postavke hypoteze iz ovog clanka, u odnosu na prijasnje?

    Koliko sam ja razumio, da li se radi o hibridizaciji u odnosu na adaptivnu evoluciju?

    PS: Za svaku drugu rijec moram koristiti rijecnik, pa sam odustao citati nakon druge recenice.

    Gost
    Gost

    Re: Darwin Finches-Galapagos Islands

    Postaj by Gost on ned 17 sij - 5:52

    Mile,
    The best way that I know how to answer you question is: The Grants(which includes his wife) spent two decades of work by working with Darwin finches to prove scientifically Darwin's theory of evolution. In the book "the Beak of the Finch" by Jonathan Weiner is a great explanation what I am trying to explain.

    Santa,
    Thank you so much for sending us " A New Perspective on the Evolutionary History of Darwin's Finches.
    The bird in your Avatar is a mistery to me. Is it one of the species in " CAPRIMULGIDAE" family?

    Gost
    Gost

    Re: Darwin Finches-Galapagos Islands

    Postaj by Gost on ned 17 sij - 5:59

    Mile,
    While I was writing last answer you sent another message. My answer to your last question is Adaptive Evolution.
    True out the years the Galapagos Islands go through tremendous in climate changes .
    Sometimes there is drought for several years when most plants that produce seeds
    for finches to eat die and most finches die also. Let me quote Grant: "At the start of the drought there were about 600 males and 600 females. By the end of the drought more than 150 of the males were still alive, but only a pitiful remnants of the females".
    It has nothing to do with hybridization.


    Zadnja promjena: tony; pon 8 vel - 6:39; ukupno mijenjano 1 put.

    Gost
    Gost

    Re: Darwin Finches-Galapagos Islands

    Postaj by Gost on ned 17 sij - 6:35

    Mile,
    Let me add a bit more. Scroll down past the warbler finch, you'll find an entry with a video were Darwin's finch is struggling to find a seed to survive during the drought when I was there.
    Notice he has a large beak. Only those finches with a large beak survived and adapted to the not so friendly environment of the Galapagos Islands.

    Therefore; Darwin's theory of evolution very logically explained in his book "The ORIGIN OF SPECIES by MEANS OF NATURAL SELECTION, OR THE PERSERVATION OF FAVORED RACES IN THE STRUGGLE FOR LIFE." was absolutely correct.


    Zadnja promjena: tony; čet 4 vel - 22:14; ukupno mijenjano 1 put.

    Gost
    Gost

    Re: Darwin Finches-Galapagos Islands

    Postaj by Gost on ned 17 sij - 7:03



    This is a Warbler, the only finch that I heard singing. No mater what Island we went to I could hear him singing. I am no sure if he is a Darwin finch. I have seen him eating maggots from a dead Seal. Talking about adaptation! Looking at his beak
    makes me think he is insectivorous bird.

    Gost
    Gost

    Re: Darwin Finches-Galapagos Islands

    Postaj by Gost on sri 3 vel - 10:32

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rIs7oYucO0

    One of Darwin's finches looking for seeds during the drought when I was there. The sound(my voice) asking the Naturalist Guide questions. You can see the struggle to survive by this finch. I took these pictures with my video camera. According Peter R. Grant and his wife Rosemary Grant in their book "How and Why Species Multiply", during long droughts 90% of finches perish. The Grants spent decades on Galapagos Islands studying the Darwin's finches. They are Professors at the Princeton University NJ teaching Biology.

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